Building Multiplatform Mobile Apps in Kotlin

00:00

Gerty thanks very much so yeah I'm

00:06

Russell wolf I'm a multi-block from

00:09

engineer at clutch late I go in touch

00:12

lab in this past February um after

00:16

hadn't been doing mostly bought some

00:18

stuff for a little over two years

00:20

especially funny Greg you were talking

00:22

about the the like initial release of

00:26

multi-platform in in 2017 so that like

00:31

that that like first released I was

00:33

concurrent with with cotton 1.2 was just

00:36

um JVM and JavaScript because because

00:40

cotton native was still kind of in in

00:42

early development at that point and it

00:46

became possible to do like con carne de

00:49

got like added to multi platform in

00:51

February of 2018 and I was looking back

00:56

at my get history recently um and I

01:00

guess I like did my first like wrote my

01:03

first code in but wrote my first month

01:06

on code the day after that release so I

01:11

jumped in pretty early so and and that

01:16

that was not quite yet though I really

01:18

did but but um one of my projects they

01:21

still need teen was almost about from

01:23

settings library um so yeah that's

01:28

that's a few notes ago me let's talk a

01:36

little bit uncommon so Carlos gave up

01:40

pretty good kind of interruption to my

01:44

work so I don't want to we keep those

01:47

details do too much um but it's a quick

01:50

summary so caught multi-platform in

01:54

takes takes the different levels of

01:56

outland unless you compile but from but

01:59

gnostic code to multiple different

02:02

targets so that might be JVM which is is

02:05

Android or or like server-side Java

02:08

JavaScript which might be browser or

02:11

might be node who are native

02:14

might be desktop native and that it or

02:18

iOS and then even use black or acidic

02:24

code to to talk to the eyes of those

02:27

individual platforms and like we're all

02:30

very used to the the smooth JPN Interop

02:32

that that cotton has on the on the top

02:35

and the Android side and you have you

02:38

have similar interrupt with the platform

02:40

api's of whichever of the platform

02:42

you're on from your platform good and

02:47

one thing I do want to know there is cuz

02:48

up I did see a question go by on it from

02:52

the first talk so you you can do expect

02:56

the actual on to uh to talk between your

02:60

your comment and your platform code and

03:02

in a lot of cases it can be nice and it

03:05

can do certain things that interfaces

03:06

can't like like having expect

03:08

instructors or expect a little functions

03:11

but one of the disadvantages sometimes

03:14

is expecting actual is forced by the

03:19

compiler to be one-to-one relationship

03:22

so there is exactly one actual

03:25

declaration per platform for each expect

03:27

declaration and one of the that doesn't

03:30

have to sometimes of that is it's you

03:32

can't swatch Swift that out for in your

03:34

custom so sometimes it can be nice to

03:37

still stick to old-fashioned interfaces

03:39

because it lets you like a passing a

03:41

test mark instead and yet the other

03:47

point I wanna make is some of them is

03:50

very well suited to to normal at farms

03:55

in radicular so like yes you can even

03:57

share between between any of these

03:58

people at forums but they provide um but

04:02

one of the things that's nice about

04:03

mobile is to your users like Android iOS

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are roughly the same thing and like yes

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under the hood they're doing lots of

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things but um there's a lot of

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opportunities to share code between

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mobile Android iOS apps because they're

04:20

probably going to be doing the same

04:21

thing because your users and like your

04:24

beer crunch matters and so if you

04:27

usually want

04:30

and I'm not going to one saying this the

04:34

difference when but Mexico's Mountain

04:38

Coffee launched this like Colin for

04:41

cross-platform mobile development page

04:43

to say you know like their interest also

04:47

in in pushing this use case as like one

04:50

of the key cases well not the platform

04:52

I mean yeah I really think it is the one

04:56

of the best ones but of course uh like

05:03

it's it but that's all I say like how do

05:05

you actually like I started with it so

05:08

yeah this gives it give us a great

05:09

introduction but one of the things that

05:13

you can find if you if you've been had

05:15

upon in this case for a while is like

05:19

Colin went over the last two years has

05:21

been a bit of a moving target like the

05:24

best practices involved the tooling has

05:27

changed dramatically from what it was

05:29

two years ago and it's like it's gotten

05:32

a lot more stable easily than than it

05:34

was early on in terms of breaking change

05:36

things happening but there's still a lot

05:38

of kind of of old information out there

05:42

that can get confusing there's also the

05:46

diffusion of like well I resist

05:48

so what puzzles all talking in the first

05:50

talk about I think here are some of the

05:53

kind of libraries that you've used to

05:54

replace what you're used to on the DBM

05:56

and that's that's also kind of one of

05:60

the one of the early sticking points a

06:02

lot people starting out half of like yes

06:05

even my Android code is even though I

06:07

under code just kind of doing the same

06:08

doing the same thing as it was doing

06:11

natively it's still talking to different

06:12

libraries and that still has a change

06:14

that you have to get used to and then of

06:18

course there's all this new

06:18

configuration stuff that you have to

06:19

learn so uh I touch Ladd we kind of were

06:27

were think about all this stuff and kind

06:29

of getting feedback about the

06:31

difficulties that people having and

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that's what um who had us to put

06:37

together this demo project called can't

06:38

get this both a

06:41

it's a product template as well as a

06:46

documentation so that you can have any

06:52

source for like what is the kind of

06:54

up-to-date

06:55

that's practice I mean when were

06:58

committed to keeping that up to date um

07:01

so one of the dungeons in bet that we

07:05

made with it is once you have kind of

07:10

thought built was installed like that

07:12

you have Xcode and energy installer or

07:17

IntelliJ it pretty much runs out of the

07:20

box

07:21

um and that was uh that was important to

07:23

us because because one of the pieces of

07:24

feedback we were getting was during

07:27

teams would like set up a hack week and

07:28

they wanted to investigate all the month

07:29

clap for him and they would spend the

07:33

entire time just trying to get something

07:34

running and that means you have no time

07:36

to actually like see how it works for a

07:38

use case and that would that cause

07:39

people to dismiss it as as not ready

07:42

even though if they kind of gotten over

07:44

those sorts of big hurdles they might

07:45

have actually made a lot of progress so

07:48

we wanted to kind of help teams get over

07:50

that hole or hurdle more quickly

07:51

um so here's here's what the weather

07:59

somebody that looks like it's if a

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single screen its makes a web call to

08:04

grab a list of dog breeds now lets you

08:08

select which ones are your favorites on

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and doing so it crunching the whole kind

08:14

of lick but basic step but you might see

08:18

in a typical crowd app so you um you

08:21

make the book called you say things

08:22

through the database and then you quit a

08:23

database to lay that out in the UI so uh

08:29

a couple notes on the architecture of

08:32

that on so the data later on is mostly

08:37

shared so that's the the networking

08:42

logic the database logic

08:44

um the kind of glue that holds

08:46

everything together and get in kind of

08:48

like the data that then gets close back

08:50

out to the UI on UI itself on its it's

08:55

too

08:55

seven native you eyes and that lets you

08:59

kind of continue to leverage your like

09:03

native toilet expertise in kind of doing

09:06

the top of a build-up at UI and of like

09:09

working with the latest

09:10

he is that those platforms provide and

09:14

one of the kind of common themes and a

09:18

lot of decisions that we made in

09:19

building camp kit um was kind of making

09:23

things play nicely with colonnaded a

09:26

threatening model obviously it's kind of

09:29

see that as a bit of a theme as I walk

09:33

through some of the some of the code so

09:42

I'm not gonna go super deep on the

09:45

concurrency model um I'm gonna have some

09:48

great talks on it that I had heard to

09:50

you to check out but the kind of short

09:55

version of it is kala native is much

09:59

stricter about mutability and mutability

10:03

and threads then you're used to on the

10:06

radio so anything that is mutable on can

10:11

only move in a single threaten : d axis

10:12

by single thread something that's

10:15

immutable can you share across multiple

10:18

threads and immutable here does not mean

10:22

Albertus VAR or whispers mutable list or

10:26

what you might be thinking of for when

10:28

you see one a vm Kotlin an immutable

10:30

here means frozen which is this new API

10:35

that exists Justin got the native that

10:39

means that objects and everything that

10:42

it had the reference to UM can't be

10:45

changed into a throw a runtime error if

10:47

it does what that ensures is that when

10:52

you pass something across threads um it

10:56

must be in the exact same state in every

10:58

thread and you can't get into these

10:60

weird on base conditions and where what

11:04

do you might get inconsistencies and

11:06

hard to debug errors

11:09

um so those rules are like simple to

11:12

state that implications kind of can take

11:14

a little bit beautifully kind of like

11:17

grass that you're working with and

11:18

they're they're a little different than

11:20

what you're used to in the day vm um but

11:22

it is very possible to work with them

11:24

and it can help you write better like

11:27

safer code in particular like it plays

11:30

nice with um with architecture that kind

11:35

of focuses on immutable data and kind of

11:39

like a bit of a more functional style

11:40

which is a bit the way the industry has

11:43

been going lately anyway

11:49

so let's talk a bit about some of my

11:52

memories that exist in candy space and

11:55

kind of how we're using them in get get

11:57

and I'll start with Colin Xcode routines

12:02

so cover teens are Cotton's asynchrony

12:07

library on that you're probably used to

12:10

coming from the Android world and

12:15

there's kind of two two major at the i/o

12:18

stuff that we make using a kit there's

12:20

like you didn't spend functions where

12:21

you're just kind of like on suspending

12:23

and waiting for single value and there's

12:25

flows where you're listening to strength

12:27

values and these are course so you can

12:32

use these in your you can use any of

12:36

these API is in your common code on iOS

12:41

but suspend function you just don't get

12:44

don't get exposed to a swift obviously

12:46

you can't use it from like your UI ll

12:48

codify us so the way to work around that

12:53

is you can kind of manually pass some

12:56

sort of way on the callback and in in

12:59

cotton 1.4 there will be a there will be

13:03

a kind of thing that generates that on

13:05

that we honestly you don't have to upset

13:08

the manual yourself and another kind of

13:13

important piece of what we're doing in

13:16

can't get is uh so

13:20

curtains

13:22

on another native the release version

13:24

are single-threaded which in practice

13:29

often means me in front of but you can

13:31

be single-threaded on backgrounds right

13:32

as well and that obviously has some

13:36

limitations so there's a preview movies

13:39

of multi-threaded routines that hasn't

13:42

emerged in the main trunk yet because

13:44

there's some some issues that are still

13:46

working on in terms of the memory leaks

13:50

that can happen but camp gate which is

13:54

is trying to find EB I mostly stayed in

13:58

the art but a little bit forward-looking

13:60

makes use of that one for the branch to

14:02

kind of get you started get you started

14:07

ready vote with it in the hopes that

14:08

like by the time that code is production

14:10

that will obvious able and another kind

14:15

of note around our covert easy surgeon

14:17

camp kit were expected to do some

14:20

summary factors at some point in their

14:22

teacher around how we can look over team

14:23

scopes so like right now the shared code

14:26

is creating its own scopes and like to

14:28

adjust that so that at least on the

14:31

Android side the Android code can pass

14:33

in things like email scope you get um

14:36

but you get natively in Android so if

14:40

you're looking at the code today like

14:41

expect some changes there at some point

14:42

the future so moving on from her teams

14:46

on the dependency vector that we use in

14:50

get get is pointing or I should say the

14:55

identity manager so that I don't step

14:57

into the middle of that like dependency

14:58

injection versus service locator today

15:01

but uh we're using a again this is a

15:06

preview of the next version Aquinas it's

15:09

an alpha of going 3.0 and it's what what

15:16

that adds in this was was computed by by

15:19

Kevin again is he it basically on had

15:26

some thread safety by kind of enforcing

15:27

that the configuration of coin happens

15:29

on the main thread on iOS so that you're

15:32

not accidentally passing something

15:33

across threads

15:36

and within our our usage of it in camp

15:41

kit we have kind of a couple different

15:44

innovation points across comedy and

15:46

Python codes you can within point you

15:49

you can kind of injects the MCS at

15:51

different levels so we have the core

15:53

module what you see in the middle here

15:56

that passes to kind of use that kind of

15:59

only only need to be configured from

16:01

common on we also have a via expected

16:05

platform module which lets the the

16:10

common code look less the farm code have

16:14

seen kind of computer sees that coin

16:16

needs to have access to you know we also

16:19

have this extra declaration lambda which

16:22

lists not just the platform code of the

16:25

shared library but also the the like

16:29

talk about location pass dependencies in

16:31

and that lets us insert the android

16:34

application context into the graph and

16:40

then yeah

16:40

one of the pointing to a coin is there's

16:44

a on a test if you have a expose which

16:50

we have we have a test test encamping

16:52

the demonstrates call it check modules

16:55

which provides kind of the same sort of

16:58

graph checking that you get in something

17:00

like daggered or at compile time but it

17:03

runs at unit test time is dead so if

17:05

you're concerned about moving from

17:07

something that's kind of compiled time

17:09

tracking your graph to something that's

17:11

runtime checking it um having something

17:13

like that in place can still help you

17:15

kind of feel confident that your graph

17:17

is staying consistent so case or is the

17:25

cross platform on HTTP client that that

17:29

jeffrys provides and yes it's it's a

17:33

coaching aware if you could be client

17:35

I'm sorry I just did the code that

17:37

innovation but in the wrong order um but

17:40

uh so it does it's under version by a

17:45

felon X serialization library which I

17:48

want with more detail on because we

17:49

don't actually do anything there so Kate

17:56

where right now is not multi-drive safe

17:58

and that it like it's um it's built

18:01

against the not really certain of our

18:04

routines and does it work very well if

18:07

you kind of call it from different

18:09

threads so we have this this workaround

18:15

kind of buried and yank it which is this

18:17

network lambda they didn't see on the

18:19

right there and that basically kind of

18:22

forces the case or calls to happen from

18:25

the main thread um so that k-chart can't

18:28

handle is on threat eternally in the way

18:29

that expected so hopefully that goes

18:33

away over time but it's not stopping you

18:37

from using this stuff right now if

18:39

you're currently see what alight we

18:46

already read about as well earlier today

18:48

but it is the I'm a be cross-platform

18:51

app that base library

18:54

um so what's neat about it on compared

18:58

to use on Lightroom is it generates its

19:01

modeling queries from sequel statements

19:04

um so what you see on the right here is

19:08

like the code that you write is just the

19:10

create table statement and the like the

19:14

data class to implement that is then

19:16

like are generated by by see little a

19:19

and so that it's kind of like the

19:24

universe of what room does what room

19:26

room you kind of need to find your your

19:28

entities in your gala objects and then

19:30

you have to like annotate them with with

19:32

C code that match see the way kind of

19:35

the opposite and says like just or from

19:36

this equal and then you'll like you can

19:39

generate the calling code that's correct

19:41

that meeting said maybe match about

19:42

yourself and then it has problem

19:47

specific runtimes so you you kind of

19:49

pass a separate I'm forgetting that were

19:53

these what you use if you do that's

19:54

different engine onto it from Android M

19:57

for iOS that exactly right inquiries or

20:03

anything we have in here is only for my

20:04

setting so that's that's my library so

20:09

it's key value store so see the light is

20:13

you are like complicated structure data

20:15

storage whatever settings is your I just

20:19

have like one or two little main values

20:22

like a timestamp or user ID or something

20:24

that I want to age and I also have some

20:29

update listener guys which are non

20:31

currently using can't get so yeah I want

20:34

to say too much about it cuz excited

20:36

being my thing and you can we talk about

20:38

in some of the other talks it doesn't

20:40

play a huge role on the epic side yeah

20:45

similar to um to do plate you kind of

20:48

you passing off at home if you delegate

20:50

that's kind of what's after you rioted

20:53

acting storage and that lets you uh as

20:55

you share that back storage from your

20:57

shared code and you are formed

21:01

stately is a lever in touch lab that's

21:06

focused on various parts of concurrency

21:09

management so part of what it does is it

21:14

adds kind of common definitions of the

21:16

different called animated freeze api's

21:17

on so that you can call those from

21:19

common and not just from your native

21:20

code

21:23

it's our module it also kind of had some

21:26

different threading per gives so this is

21:28

the similar on the right is using sea

21:30

views guard stable ref which essentially

21:34

like enforces that the reference that it

21:36

contains is only access from a single

21:39

thread and that's that's part the

21:41

internals of that of that now recall

21:43

that we use and workaround Couture and

21:46

then another thing it has this not from

21:51

a Yank it but is kind of worth

21:52

discussing this is module called base of

21:55

state that essentially lets you handle

22:01

state in animal they started context by

22:03

kind of having a single thread that your

22:05

mutable state lives on and then it

22:08

provides you API is to kind of go in and

22:10

talk through that state Wyeth writing

22:12

for you so there's there's a questions

22:15

versus of some questions implemented on

22:17

top of that that are much more

22:20

performant than the kind of old or CD

22:22

collections that were obvious on the

22:23

topics and did last time ago three

22:30

quickly is a permanent which is volume

22:33

library that we've recently been putting

22:37

together a touch lab and it's uh but

22:43

kind of key piece of it is um it's

22:46

immutable after like your body variation

22:49

is immutable after you firstly period

22:51

which then makes it safe to pass between

22:53

threads so it's not yeah merged into

22:58

can't kid there's if there's a key are

22:59

open right now on so you'll see it there

23:01

soon and yeah we're interested to hear

23:06

feedback if you if it's if it is or it

23:09

isn't hitting or these cases so

23:14

and that's what libraries I'm also

23:15

talking a little bit about I'm just some

23:17

notes some other notes on integration um

23:21

so uh there's there's a bunch of kind of

23:25

what new Gradle things that get added

23:28

when when you go from Calgary and to cut

23:32

the multi-platform and from that we have

23:36

them all kind of set up for you

23:37

initially but we can talk about what

23:39

some of it is so the big thing is the

23:44

way that you set up your NFC's changes

23:47

because you access 500 different targets

23:49

so within your column block or you you

23:52

you have a couple of that now within

23:55

which you you call these different

23:56

target function so like this Android

23:58

function or the iOS are 64 iOS I fix

24:00

people are and that tells the build

24:04

system like these are the platforms that

24:06

my code is gonna build - and then that

24:10

will generate on main test source that's

24:12

for each for each of those targets which

24:15

you could then kind of stuff let me get

24:16

to your appendices floor a lot of MCS

24:21

these days are being published with real

24:23

metadata which means you can kind of gel

24:25

set them from your common main and

24:29

Gradle will figure out how they kind of

24:31

put the right vendors he's in place but

24:34

certain things like this you know

24:35

library you still have to specify for

24:37

each platform no small note here is

24:41

there there is a helper function called

24:45

iOS that essentially does what this

24:47

block here on the right is doing of

24:48

checking whether you're on even this

24:51

emulator or using by son iOS on and it's

24:56

an intermediate source set and between

24:58

them and it doesn't always play nicely

25:00

with Ivy especially the vendor X to do

25:04

so you might see that in some other

25:06

examples but we tend to recommend like

25:08

sticking with the NATO operation for now

25:10

until the IV side and that kind of

25:13

difference I guess cleaned up

25:16

another thing you might be noticing here

25:18

is is we're using a complan build

25:21

scripts I tend to find like it takes a

25:25

little bit of getting used to

25:25

moving from Gradle

25:27

no scripts but it's really nice having

25:30

tomorrow complete and being able to uh

25:34

especially what kind of new great lady

25:37

eyes that are involved in the other

25:38

bathroom side um it's nice happens ma

25:41

didn't need to be able to make these a

25:43

bit more discoverable and then we have

25:46

configuration to opt into generics on

25:49

the objective-c side which in column one

25:53

3x aren't aren't automatically uh for it

25:58

to like Darren's not Anurag that

25:60

important to see in Swift in column with

26:02

a three but it will be in one not four

26:04

and then we opted into the experimental

26:07

reckons API because we were accusing him

26:09

in about two places we have in there on

26:14

the real side is um we have a version of

26:19

the cocoa pod scale plugin so um there's

26:22

a fork of the official Japanese plugin

26:24

um and so general Konev must be around

26:29

Cove odds is it on uses a bunch of the

26:34

iOS integration configuration so without

26:38

that you kind of have to manually on the

26:41

frameworks and a set of a Gradle task to

26:43

copy that framework over to Xcode and

26:46

there's like two different ways that you

26:48

could do it that were in different

26:49

samples for a long time um you know like

26:52

oh gods kind of helps handle that all

26:55

more seamlessly under the hood

26:58

unfortunately the charge plug-in is not

27:01

you can't really configure the framework

27:03

that it generates so one of the things

27:06

that we wanted as we were building up

27:09

gem kit was the ability to debug things

27:13

in Xcode and to do that you need to have

27:15

a dynamic framework instead of a static

27:16

framework which the default cocoa pod

27:20

plugin didn't allow for so we've added

27:23

is on the ability to kind of specify the

27:26

frameworks look um within the gobots

27:29

extension so that you can't so that

27:33

whatever you want to add i'm you can ice

27:35

in there so you like generally sanity

27:39

you'll need

27:41

and also some adjustments in how the pod

27:43

file is generated which helps deal with

27:46

some caching issues that can that can

27:48

cause you issues when you're on like

27:51

trying to make sure you're getting a

27:52

clean build and yet a still in like

27:56

we're still kinda back we don't let me

27:58

that and kind of like figuring out what

28:00

are the things we can do to do with it

28:02

to kind of help develop my flow so looks

28:04

know if you got these cases then morning

28:11

us good side um

28:13

so you young just like has a um I think

28:20

I can plug in for experts you can debug

28:22

your caulking code you need even like

28:25

step into your hot encode from the

28:26

expert debugger um and can't get it set

28:31

up so that you the common sources are

28:33

already in the asset project so you can

28:36

Mikey me get me like talk to the right

28:37

source but you do have to like install

28:40

that plug-in yourself on guest outside

28:44

so in a little short time but in the

28:47

time remaining output got a couple kind

28:51

of things that we've built on top of

28:53

this less interesting um so in general

29:00

um camp it's been really nice for um for

29:06

letting us like not just for kind of

29:08

like from people like here do we even

29:10

get sorta quickly but also for us to

29:11

kind of predict things quickly

29:13

so one ones that I did recently um I

29:15

want to do a blog post to go into more

29:17

detail on at some point soon but it's

29:21

I've seen it a since by a couple times

29:22

lately is around in Iran between our ex

29:27

weapon co-routines

29:29

so this is a thing I've got together to

29:32

kind of like roughly does that where you

29:33

can so the the Derek memory upload

29:37

doesn't get exposed to tube got to see

29:41

because because flow is interface and

29:43

see generics only working classes what

29:47

if you add a wrapper class around it you

29:49

can kind of maintain that type safety

29:51

and pass it up to look this web side

29:55

then you can add this extra kind of

29:58

durable generic function on the swift

30:01

side which lets you uh I think I passed

30:04

the test the different callbacks that

30:06

that flow is looking for and hook them

30:09

into the arts web server wall so this

30:14

isn't um it isn't perfectly thread safe

30:18

has written if you're doing a bunch of

30:20

device threading things on your arts

30:22

website but it does it's kind of like a

30:24

start of how to make them talk to each

30:26

other and once we also look build some

30:32

production code with this so good client

30:37

that was that I think it's kind of like

30:39

prototype like what does feature module

30:41

will look like in in our existing app

30:43

and we're able to use can't get as

30:45

that's kind of a starting point for that

30:47

configuration so we yeah I think we make

30:52

something use to plug it into the client

30:53

field system and in particular like

30:55

there I was attending raju area than

30:57

their Android code on so we did a bunch

30:60

of work around kind of being able to

31:02

toggle between building that building

31:05

the share drain work from from source or

31:09

just like referencing as binary and it's

31:15

been nice kind of like working with

31:17

clients and being able to to kind of go

31:20

back and update cake pitch with

31:22

learnings that we've had from from you

31:23

didn't using similar period into

31:25

production so I think I'm gonna energy

31:30

over but but a couple of just kind of

31:31

like quick final thoughts

31:33

so like the general nice thing of be

31:38

I'll call on what the platform is is you

31:42

have a lot of flexibility so I

31:46

a lot about libraries here in local

31:48

immigration things um but depending on

31:52

what you want to share or like if you

31:54

just have kind of like a pure Islamic

31:55

thing you don't need to use any of that

31:58

if you don't want to try it out or any

31:59

of that stuff like if you just want to

32:01

write your own code you can do that and

32:03

share it really easily absol wanna um

32:08

definitely the sites like this like I'm

32:12

a huge own of the stuff and and I

32:15

definitely think it's kind of the future

32:17

of how a lot of us will be building

32:18

mobile apps um but it's definitely an

32:20

early adopter phase now and you should

32:23

make sure and if I come from lying into

32:24

that so look like there some questions

32:27

earlier or around like is a production

32:28

ready and I think what production ready

32:32

means is different to each team in each

32:34

organization

32:36

so there are you doing a production now

32:38

because to them it is production ready

32:40

um your your opinion of that will will

32:44

vary depending on kind of like your your

32:45

needs but it's definitely out of phase

32:50

where it makes a lot of sense to

32:52

evaluate it and see if it is over that

32:53

line for you so yeah I think with that I

32:59

will pass things over to questions nice

33:04

job thanks so much

33:05

Russell fantastic here so we're gonna

33:09

get the questions going pretty quick

33:11

before I do that here I've got to give

33:16

you the you know you get a stream in our

33:19

live audience here so that they can go

33:29

that was great job okay so I'm gonna

33:33

have Willie bring up our questions here

33:35

and his screen should be sharing with us

33:37

at this point here so you should see the

33:40

questions from slide Oh coming up on

33:42

your screen

33:43

I'm gonna pop out for this sure all

33:47

right so at the top we have what is the

33:50

best see ICD workflow to share

33:52

multi-platform live inside a mobile team

33:53

like single Depot or or a shared lib I

33:58

that is a thing that will vary mighty in

34:01

like what they one of the nice thing is

34:05

about about what kind of modularity of

34:10

problem of the platform is you can kind

34:13

of continue to lean on the same like

34:17

build pipelines and stuff that you are

34:18

the are in area code as you try to

34:20

introduce it so like the new piece is

34:23

now you have the shared library that

34:24

you're going to want to like build and

34:26

test and if you're in a neighborhood

34:28

something we both don't need to kind of

34:29

like publish the article or in the same

34:31

you know you can kind of test them all

34:32

at once

34:34

I don't know that I can like yeah I

34:39

don't know they want to point to kind of

34:40

like a single best workflow I think you

34:44

can you can kind of like make that

34:47

choice depending on on what your needs

34:48

are and on like maybe how much good your

34:50

faring and how how much you need to test

34:52

library isolation versus uh versus kind

34:56

of all together so do you find it

34:60

beneficial or detrimental that KMP

35:01

doesn't include shared UI I wouldn't say

35:07

I certainly don't find detrimental um if

35:11

I think it's like campi is trying to do

35:16

a different thing than flutter is like

35:17

flutter is trying to be shared UI and

35:21

maybe kind of like skips over the

35:23

details of some sort of the hood um came

35:27

he is no it's kind of working at that

35:29

lower level sharing things that are kind

35:32

of like more of a logic layer and less

35:36

less than we do love learn so I think

35:41

that means that panky is a lot more

35:42

flexible um so like like flutters didn't

35:46

have a pretty big impact on the

35:48

architecture and the build process I

35:49

their whole application if you're using

35:51

it campy you can kind of like slot in

35:54

wherever you wanted hit be as much or as

35:56

little as you want and you're not paying

35:60

a huge penalty for even if you're just

36:03

using a little bit

36:07

any tips on improving and build times um

36:12

certainly is something that that we're

36:14

doing something you know um you know did

36:16

something at that um my Japanese has

36:19

been improving over time so like if you

36:20

try this stuff like six months ago

36:22

it definitely does build faster than it

36:24

it did then off the top of my head I

36:30

don't have kind of like specific tips

36:33

um like I mean marginalising always

36:38

helps if you're if you're doing stuff in

36:40

large scale like any way that you can

36:42

kind of not need to be build on your

36:45

pollinator code will help

36:49

have you get around the colony to close

36:52

well Prince of all so they're not a

36:59

company to close were principal eg

37:00

biting iOS collect classes in KP and

37:02

using index code or console classes

37:04

inveteracy not the expose properly so

37:09

this is dissipated on the about there's

37:12

there's there's there's some limitations

37:14

around in the internet around the fact

37:17

that you can't kind of go back and forth

37:20

multiple times between cotton and

37:23

Objective C and you like each each each

37:30

Colin very each binary that you like you

37:33

teach framework that you create

37:34

aggregate encode kind of doesn't know

37:37

about the others on and the way around

37:40

it is I mean the the the easy way around

37:45

it if you can is to kind of do more

37:48

things at the column level because like

37:52

if you're if you're kind of like just in

37:53

the cotton world that you don't have as

37:55

much for the limitations and if you're

38:00

not able to do that then it's just about

38:02

kind of like segue anything so you don't

38:04

have too many interdependencies and

38:06

community modules so like if you have

38:07

multiple frameworks um making sure that

38:11

they do independent enough things that

38:13

they don't need to talk to the same

38:15

stuff in the hood so that you don't have

38:16

to worry about kind of which version of

38:18

column they are in the club

38:26

Clee that sort of also enters the next

38:27

question of what is your experiences

38:29

with dependencies between two libraries

38:30

so it is like it's possible to have

38:34

multiple column libraries in your

38:35

framework as out of one 370 I mean we've

38:39

been doing some kind of testing of some

38:42

limitations of that and and some

38:46

blogging about that I think but um so

38:49

it's it's possible to have to you can't

38:54

like they won't be aware of they did you

38:57

you can't really make paps common types

38:58

between them

38:59

um so if they have their dependencies

39:01

between them again you'll want to do

39:03

that more on the common layer than depa

39:05

so after that - see you later do I know

39:11

any framework for a colony by um so

39:14

there's a couple people that have done

39:16

like some things there's nothing that

39:19

seems to have really caught on very

39:21

largely in the community um I tend to

39:26

think it's like it tends to not meet my

39:29

focus and I tend to think it's a little

39:31

bit kind of early to be too focused on

39:34

the UI side of things like we're calling

39:37

really shines is more at the logic layer

39:40

and you'll you'll have a a easier time

39:45

working with it if you have to get into

39:46

that mindset of I'm not going to share

39:48

every step free piece of code but I've

39:51

got to show you that things that make

39:52

sense to share what are the pros and

39:56

cons of different ways of defining

39:58

dependencies

40:00

mostly it's stylistic so doing that they

40:08

like and I think I've done both in

40:12

different projects um one of the links

40:16

like you know anything is going by

40:17

getting style is is he get all of these

40:21

like unused references like I needed

40:24

aren't warnings which we don't get in

40:26

India in the UM and the source it's

40:29

reckoned in version but mostly it's not

40:32

doesn't make a big difference it's the

40:34

same thing in order

40:38

over the backend any tips about how to

40:40

import a library written with KMP from

40:43

the backend written in Jas so I

40:48

personally haven't done a ton on the Jas

40:50

side so like I haven't ace try to get in

40:54

in alarm settings and I'm like hey I

40:57

have a project that was a JX graduate

41:00

are yet um but I haven't um I'm not very

41:04

familiar with kind of like the more more

41:09

like the deeper side of various

41:12

configuration so uh I don't recommend

41:16

I'm asking about that stuff on on slack

41:19

though and if you and you haven't looked

41:22

at us in a little while there were some

41:25

pretty heavy reeve actors to kind of how

41:27

I was configured in it a while ago now

41:32

in column 1 3 Rd um and the

41:35

documentation has gotten a lot better on

41:37

that in the last couple months so if you

41:40

haven't looked closely at it recently

41:41

doesn't take another look and see that

41:42

house what is difference between

41:46

immutability and freeze so in other

41:51

words that I was using when I was

41:53

talking about freeze they are the same

41:55

thing so so like when you call freeze on

41:58

on an object or when a nominated is

42:01

frozen

42:01

um it's immutability is like a distant

42:04

force that's being immutable topic what

42:11

kind of moves it stops on making towards

42:13

desktop support none that I have been

42:17

part of though I get something that we

42:21

pay some attention to on the library

42:22

side it's easy to to expose try to get

42:28

to a desktop platform or a library or a

42:30

building like will do that but we're

42:32

like the clients that we're talking to

42:35

are mucking around the mobile side

42:38

uh how is the performance of Isis study

42:42

any suggestions best practice to handle

42:44

the chair capture the performance um so

42:48

for that I refer you back to UM Kevin's

42:53

Lagos work where you talked about it

42:55

it's much better than what you had with

43:00

with Atomics in the first day of the

43:02

elections

43:03

um it's not going to be quite as good as

43:05

what you get with just a single for

43:09

everybody but that'sthat's kind of the

43:12

trade-off that you are making by by

43:14

having say that you want to access by

43:16

multiple minutes decide which libraries

43:21

including cam kit largely by the ones

43:24

that we want to be using in the ops that

43:29

we're building and the ones that that

43:32

Adelaide yeah like work well in

43:35

situations that we've encountered and

43:37

that'd be kind of like trust to keep

43:41

updated

43:44

um when do you decide that this logic

43:47

part won't be shared I'm not sure I

43:52

understand specifically what logic part

43:53

that is but um in general like you can

43:57

you can make that sort of decision and

44:00

again you can change it over time

44:03

I get very if you're if you're trying to

44:05

figure out like like what do and don't

44:06

you want to share within as it can go

44:08

bass even kind of like they pick an area

44:13

that seems to make sense start off and

44:14

add more to it over time um it's not

44:17

kind of like a permanent thing um do you

44:24

know if there's a green way to share

44:25

test artifacts the tweeting to MEP

44:27

modules um so but one way that I have

44:32

done it and you can see this in multiple

44:34

settings um if you look at the curation

44:36

in there is create a separate module and

44:41

define those test artifacts in the in

44:43

that that modules main code and then you

44:47

can depend on that module from your test

44:49

code to it takes a bit be suitable well

44:58

great Russell looks like we were able to

44:59

make it through all the questions thank

45:01

you so we've got one more one more that

45:03

popped in let's give you a couple

45:05

seconds stands for that one that's Gary

45:07

yeah sure to use he also what is this

45:11

way to maintain compose Jason KMP so I

45:15

like I say in general make game he is uh

45:18

opinionated on your iPad I'm sure um

45:22

like I tend to find it works a little

45:25

nicer with with like I'm you have an MBI

45:29

stuff that it does then with MEP because

45:31

you might be kind of moving back and

45:32

forth between your your platform in your

45:35

cherry code but but mostly even that is

45:37

not a huge deal

45:40

as far as Jedi compose stuff um don't

45:45

have a great answer for that other than

45:48

that like most of the things that you

45:50

would probably have about the compose

45:53

level are going to be at your UI here

45:56

which is probably your

45:57

pause it there so assuming that is

46:03

correct you're just going to kind of

46:05

leave it your Popham code anyway

46:09

nice well thanks so much this has been

46:14

fantastic to have you Russell also

46:17

Carlos thank you for being with us again

46:19

this is our first installment of the

46:21

multi-platform series so we expect to to

46:24

go deeper will whether there was some

46:26

questions differences with respect to

46:28

flutter and multi platform so we'll be

46:31

covering some of those as well in the

46:33

future future events so anyway really

46:36

have been great to have you all things

46:37

for everybody who signed in to this as

46:40

well it was great having you here with

46:44

us and again check back regularly at at

46:47

droidcon comm and you'll be able to see

46:50

what's coming up next you'll also be

46:53

able to get all of the you'll also be

46:56

able to get all of the presentations

46:58

they're probably within the next day or

47:00

so and we look forward to seeing you

47:02

again at further series here I've heard

47:06

coming online things so once again from

47:08

being with us and we'll see you next

47:09

time

47:17

you

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